Update Day 8, by Lauren

UPDATE DAY 8: GOODMORNING ALL!! For those of you who want to know, today is the day I have the second dose of the special drug! It's called Inotuzumab and what it does is target a specific protein (CD22 protein to be exact) within the leukaemic cell. Obviously more complicated then that but you get my drift. And it's quite anti-climatic, the drug is given intravenously through my PICC (or matrix line as I like to call it) over an hour and voila! So I had one dose last Tuesday, I'll have another dose today and another dose on Day 15. Then Day 22 is when I will go in for a bone marrow biopsy to see if one cycle of this drug has got me into remission (which is technically 3%>leukaemic blasts in my system - I'm hoping 0%). Unfortunately this drug won't cure me though - I still need a transplant. So if one cycle gets me into remission (which I'm twisting and fingers crossing up like a contortionist hoping that's the case) we will wait three weeks and then go into transplant. The reason for the time in between is to give my liver and kidneys a break otherwise I'll end up with worst problems down the track or possibly through transplant itself. If one cycle doesn't get me into full remission Pfizer (the drug company who owns Inotuzumab) has given me a second cycle but the research that has just come out 2 weeks ago about trials in the US shows promising outcomes with just one cycle and my doctor is hoping to keep the second cycle just incase I relapse again during or after transplant, which unfortunately is still a possibility that comes with it all. So here's hoping the one cycle does the trick and if not we have a second to back me up!! As for me and how I'm going - I'm great!

Still on heavy steroids to reduce reactions to the drug but they're slowly on the decrease now that the first dose is done and the second one is about to commence. But I still eat like all the savoury food won't be here tomorrow (Yeeesss especially bacon) and I have a funny resemblance to Moonface from The Magic Faraway Tree or a chipmunk! I can even get 4 double chins now! And because the drug doesn't target all your cells like chemo does my blood counts have been good so I've been feeling well and am growing a nice head of dark hair (I'll lose it again in transplant but at least I have more than my Dad at the moment). And I've been keeping myself busy learning how to crochet beanies with Gram, have 700 something origami cranes (only 300 to go), now have Netflix, getting through my movie list, and got out the inner gamer in me and revisited Pokemon and Sims 3, reading books, trying to win stuff out of puzzle books, online shopping, exercising on the bike and getting people to bring me food...

Can't complain with life at the Royal Adelaide Hotel at the moment. Still not sure about a discharge yet - because I'm the first person in Australia to receive this drug they are loving monitoring me so it might be another week but with an awesome youth cancer room like the one I'm in I'm not complaining. Just gotta sit tight and hopefully everything will fall into place! And also, thank you all for the lovely food and bacon tags and memes and love... Sometimes they make my day and then other times they make me really really hungry haha but it's cool to know you guys can laugh with me on this crazy journey too!! Anyway better go and fuck up some more cancer cells 😜 ‪#‎FUCKLEUKAEMIA‬ ‪#‎FUCKCANCER‬

Home leave this weekend

Yesterday and today saw Lauren home during the day and back into hospital after dinner. Calamari tonight. Something different after all the bacon she's been eating. Woolies Arkaba been wiped out of bacon - bloody steroids!!! She's even sending me personal messages with recipes with bacon!!! It's getting manic!! She's been busy making beanies for people and watching DVD's care of a movie buff nurse on night duty. Sounds like Lauren and her share a fondness of good quality movies.

Kate visited her this week and found a good use for the electronic chair - lucky it was when we were about to leave. Next treatment with the drug is this Tues or Wed. Not sure how it's going yet as she's still on high steroid treatment currently.

Treatment to remission (again) started today!

The miraculous drug arrived in Adelaide and was administered at 3:00pm today to Lauren via drip. Now go and attack those rogue cells you life saving drug!!! This drug being non-evasive binds itself to a certain protein found in the rogue (blast) cells and destroys them/envelopes them - basically gets rid of them. Have to find out more about the process these operate in.

(picture: Lauren giving thumbs up to the new drug (in the background) and the bird to cancer!!! #fuckcancer #laurenlives

We need her back in remission first before we can proceed with the stem cell transplant. Cord blood for transplant has been sitting waiting for transplant in Adelaide since ~ June 3. All ready to go!!

Lauren's FB post earlier today:
SOOO I JUST FOUND OUT TODAY'S THE DAY!! This afternoon I will have this awesome drug and it will start fucking with my cancer!! Today is a good day to have a good day!! ‪#‎FUCKCANCER

Update from Lauren tonight (Sun 21/06/2015)

UPDATE: sooo drug looks like it will be here Tuesday or Wednesday now simply because of customs/paperwork/education etc. but I have been assured it's definitely on its way as it now has its own tracking number and is somewhere between the UK and Sydney as we speak. So really it's just been a bit of a waiting game over the past few days.

Was able to get out and enjoy some hospital day leave this past weekend where I went to the beach and enjoyed the sunshine plus ate waaaayy too much food at Kublai Khan (thanks steroids) and just pottered around home and helped gram do some cooking. Technically I am well enough at this point to be discharged except because they want me admitted for when the drug comes they figured it's best to keep me in my room and I'm not complaining either. At the moment I'm in the room specifically given to youth cancer patients and it is seriously like a little mini penthouse hospital suite decked with flat screen telly, a couch, microwave and kettle and some sort of gaming device I got no idea how to use. But basically I do not mind staying in this room and I can see how in the future, somewhere in Australia, there's going to be a youth cancer centre set up somewhere where all the rooms are like this because it seriously makes life in hospital - especially as a 'young adult' - a lot easier!

As for my health, miraculously my leukaemic blasts have come down, which means the steroids are working wonders and holding me in good stead while we wait for the drug. My doctor was very surprised when she told me this so I'll take it while I can. And bloody hell, those steroids have helped turned me into a food crazed chipmunk faced demon haha an experience and feeling I'll never quite be able to explain with words alone - only 3 packets of cheese and bacon shapes plus 2 cheese and tomato toasties and 2 packets of bacon later can explain fully. And whaddyaknow I'm now thinking about food again.

So before I take myself over to the fridge for a late night snack I just want to mention again how incredible the support and love has been and how grateful I am to have such wonderful friends and support networks in my life - if it wasn't for the continuous support I hear and see everyday I would definitely not be in the strong headspace I am in right now - knowing people are with me and beside me and believe in me is a truly wonderful thing and I thank everyone of you for being part of my journey so whole heartedly and openly. I couldn't do it without you guys so again - especially within the last two weeks, thank you for still believing and being there for me - it does mean the world and I'm so grateful!! So thank you! I know we have a long road yet and the first step is this drug but we will get there one tiny step at a time. Going to make it my mission to ‪#‎FUCKCANCER‬. Just got to fuck it from myself first...... now what was in that fridge.....

Rescued by the Germans!!

The information I've had on request from the RAH Executive never came yesterday (disappointing). After an email I sent to the University Hospital Wurzburg bounced, I frantically tried to access a correct email address and name of the treating physician from the RAH Executive, only to be told: "Our international links are very very valuable in these situations and I really don't want to put them at risk because of what can be interpreted as being a local Australian issue."....you know..... it's not the person, the system and the institutionalisation of people is at fault (no, it stinks!!). But who owns this?? No-one seems to own anything these days.

Anyway, through great work from my partner we tried a few other email addresses in Germany and one found its way to the correct medical team and they answered all the questions (and an extra one), in writing, and within hours of me sending them - a fantastic effort for such a huge hospital given it was night time for them when I emailed. Have a look at their website and you can see why they are a centre of excellence in many fields. Thank you Max for your most welcome and professional assistance last night (our time). Why the RAH didn't supply the answers to me when asked and refused to give me the details of the team in Germany, I don't know. I wonder if we'll ever know?

Anyway, we have a good and proven, best option for Lauren going forward via the Pfizer drug, inotuzumab. I don't know what I can say about Pfizer coming to the party but we appreciate the RAH Medical team sourcing this solution.

I'm glad this last week is over. We went from a discussion of options with a medical team at the RAH last Tuesday where it was suggested we might like to start discussions with palliative care to a way forward for treatment. What a week!! Now it's up to Lauren to take the baton and take up her fight and get through this to a successful outcome, as she will. This is where the support of her great friends will be important. Last night a much relieved Dad called into the hospital a little late, and a beautiful daughter said, "come and sit beside me, I want my father back!".

This last week reminds me of the quote:
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
― Edmund Burke

We have seen so much goodness/greatness from so many people this last week, the negatives seem trivial in comparison. From raising (or at least having it underwritten) AUD $400,000 - (wasn't that much required in the end, when the Germans responded) from various people who stepped up, from the support of the politicians and their fantastic staff, to many who have supported our entire family in so many ways - THANK YOU!!

I don't know who owns this cartoon, but perfect for this last week:

Waiting on much needed information from the RAH today

We have a potential solution for treatment for Lauren in a drug from Pfizer. However, because of different comments about this drug from staff at the RAH we are seeking answers to all the alternate treatments available and urgently. Emails have been going to the Director at the RAH and back (however answers to the requests remain outstanding still). Irrespective of what path we go down and any outcome in Lauren's treatment(s), these answers are required. Surely we have rights as Australian Citizens to make enquiries in the best interest of treatment for our kids!!.

Lauren came home for day leave yesterday which was wonderful. Ate the house out of bacon. Pigs out there, watch out!!!

Thank you to those who have underwritten any overseas treatment. Please don't go away right now as the seed funds may still be required this week for Germany. We will advise. We've said it already but huge thank you's to many for their help. Huge story here on it's own.

Also had a call from Amgen Saturday afternoon. The drug is not coming from them to us in Australia. However we can access the same drug in Germany and the USA. Crazy, I know. I understand what they're saying but certainly do not agree with it. Laws and protection for Australians is required by our regulators before we participate in medical trials and how they measure their statistics and when and if someone can exit the trial!!! I personally would not participate in them under the current regulators rulings and these rulings need major overhaul. This the press need to know about for the protection of all Australians!!! Unbelievable how it works. As the representative of Amgen said "if you're participating in a medical trial, you are being totally ultraistic by doing so". Much more needs to revisited here.

Fund raising on hold for now (so ignore this morning's post)

Amazing day. I'm pretty sure we have enough from people and businesses to underwrite us for the cost of any overseas treatment if required. Am therefore stopping the fundraising for now and once we know if we are definitely going or not, will pay via those willing to help underwrite and then repay them whilst Lauren & I were away via fundraising back here. So great outcome to at least give us a parachute if it's needed.

There are things still happening behind the scenes including a possibility of a drug availability. At this stage we're still planning around a worst case scenario in terms of costs and treatment, which if needed at last minute, our underwriters will fund initially and if it improves, well it might be less or nothing. So ignore funding details on previous post unless you hear differently from me via this blog.

Thank you for the phone calls today and ones to Julie. I wouldn't pull this funding if I wasn't sure the people concerned were not sincere in their support. Unbelievable how this has all transpired in less than a week. If you are wondering why I never put a figure on this morning's post it is because I'm still seeking clarification from the RAH of the actual correct figure.

A boring day would be very welcome right now!!!

Fund Raising details

I wish I could write everything going on right now here. Will do after this is all over. Where we're up to right now is:

i) still trying to get Amgen to release their drug for treatment for Lauren here in Adelaide. They have not approved it still, and we don't know the official reason yet for the 'NO' response to date. The first one via the RAH was about pharmaceutical companies 'protecting their statistics' to make the drug look as good a possible when they go for PBS participation at Government level. The second was because of a clause in the trial Lauren signed before going on it. A clause I don't know what it is but have asked for a copy from the Director at the RAH. A clause the medico who suggested the trial didn't even know was in there.

The current behaviour of AMGEN's executive team is nothing different to how an assassin would operate (in my eyes).

An assassin (I'm no expert on this BTW!!!) would no doubt:
i) have a target
ii) explore options
iii) make a decision
iv) execute the plan
v) have an outcome

In AMGEN's case,
i) they know about Lauren
ii) they could choose to provide the drug or withhold it
iii) at this stage they have chosen to withhold it (official reason I still don't know yet!!! - unbelievable in itself!!!)
iv) work in progress
v) their decision will either give Lauren a chance of further treatment or certain death.

How is their approach currently, any different to an assassin??? Please what do the people really think?? They're approach to date is nothing short of criminal.

I know trials are an important process to get life saving drugs to market, but I'm sure the rules around them, and protection for participants and all Australians (the world for that matter!!) needs to be carefully scrutinised, at the end of the day, and all Australian (even global) citizens must be protected first and foremost. Right now, my experience is DON'T participate in pharmaceutical company trials where it could be a life and death situation. Now's not the time to put my energy into this, but this will be parked for a visit later. I always said, even when I worked for them, "never trust an institution"

ii) Pfizer have a drug which we were told by RAH was an option, then it was a not, supposedly because it was a 'failed drug'. Turns out this is not the case and the RAH are still waiting to hear if we can access it for Lauren. Not sure what's been done on this front to date, but have followed this up with a Director at the RAH.

iii) if we can't get either of these drugs to use here in Australia, we'll have to go elsewhere for treatment which involves massive cost (which we can't cover without fundraising). Time is an issue and we must move fast. Either way we'll need funds for purchase of the drug (possibly even for option i & ii above). Some people have started seed funding (underwriting) the cost (this in itself is a massive story to be shared later) and will be repaid by fundraising carried out now and ongoing. Anyone who's been asking how they can help, this is how you can. We have to be in a position to pay a huge amount by next Friday.

Nathan, our beautiful 13 year old son has already offered his bank account and gone to the headmaster at school yesterday because he wants to do some fundraising activities to help save his sister!!....I can't help but cry every time I think of his selfless act. - Do these drug companies not have a heart to understand one iota the destructive impact they can have on people's lives from distant decisions made in their board rooms around the world!!! Why do we as the people allow this to continue?? - another one to park for now.


Fund raising has been set up via the Leukaemia Foundation South Australia. There were several ways people can donate, but that's on hold for now thanks to the generous support from some, in underwriting the required sum (albeit, we still don't know final figure confirmed via RAH).


XXXXXXXXXXXXXX funding details section deleted XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


Thank you to all those who have been on our backs for this info. Thank you from all of us in advance. If you want to make a donation only if the money is required for the drug or treatment, but if not used you want it back, that can be facilitated too. Just talk with Simon and his team at Leukaemia Foundation SA. When depositing money please give your full details and contact so if for any reason we don't need the funds or there is excess, it can be refunded if you choose. Either way, it won't be coming to us personally.

Re involving the press etc, please leave that with us for now as there are a few hurdles to jump on this front (not created by the press).

Like I said in a previous post, in this last week I've seen the worst of humanity via the 'institution' and the absolute best. If I cry at night, it's not for fear of Lauren's future, it's from the unselfish acts of so many who we hadn't even asked for help yet!! Many unbelievable stories to share here......look out for the book - maybe that can be my fundraiser for the cause!!!

Please Company XYZ (not real name) say YES and NOW, PLEASE!!!!

Thumb nail sketch of where we're up to. Will expand at a later date. Too much to write, right now. Lauren's only chance of survival (not guaranteed) is a non evasive drug as further chemo is not an option given the levels she's had already. The non evasive drug (will give name later - yes it's got the alphabet in it!!) is on phase 3 trial in Australia and is available in some other countries already.

We can access it from overseas but huge logistics and costs involved. We're looking at fund raising, as money (if this option only one left) has to be paid by next Fri. Just spoke to Julie and suggested we look at a company to underwrite us and we'll fundraise and pay them back. Can they help us by putting the money upfront. Tall order, but what do we do? However, we do not want any money given to us directly as we want to set up something arms length and controlled maybe by a charity so no-one can ever accuse us of profiting from Lauren's illness. Campaign #laurenlives

Either way, we will get this drug. Either the company concerned says "yes" we can have it here in Australia, which will save a lot of hassles (massive understatement) or we go overseas, despite the increased risks and isolation this brings.

We should hear from their USA parent today. I might be delusional (yes, I can see a lot of head nodding in agreement) but I'm expecting good news!!! However rather than get angry with them, can people who support Lauren show appreciation on behalf of our family by acknowledging an MP and Senator and their office for their tremendous support for Lauren. If they hadn't stepped in the way they have (and their key staff) Lauren would be going into 'P' care. I refuse to use that word - the suggestion from RAH on Tuesday this week - "to talk to them at least". I don't think people realise how institutionalised the western world has become!!

Anyway the second drug company has said no too, but I was under the impression it was because their trial (not in Australia) failed. But now the RAH are saying that is a possible option again, despite it being a 'NO' 2 days ago.

So hopefully today we hear some welcome news from Company XYZ in California. We will get the drug anyway, they could just make our lives a hell of a lot easier and remove some of the roadblocks of other ways to access it.

Anyway, can people please help us acknowledge the support we're receiving by maybe liking their facebook page or putting a nice comment on our behalf on their facebook page or twitter account. Everyone is asking what they can do, please show these two politicians appreciation for us. Call it #laurenlives campaign!!!

Andrew Southcott MP, Member for Boothby
Senator Nick Xenophon, Independent Senator for South Australia

Please don't tie up their phone lines or even bog their email system (we want them free to keep doing their great work!! Please put a positive comment on our behalf on their facebook page or twitter account under #laurenlives . Please do it as I want these two guys to know how much we appreciate their support and activity and their wonderful staff. Take action now please!!! I'm sure Lauren will enjoy seeing your support as she can watch your comments on their pages.

The things that have happened this week, I could write a book about. Fingers, toes, everything crossed for a good result today. Some good news and ability to move would be very welcome.

Unbelievable

So much happening, haven't even got time to fit it all in here right now. Here's what I put on facebook this morning - will explain it all later.

11 Jun 2015 ~7:00am CST:
Yep, same again today. Just less sleep this time. So much happening. Seeing the worst of mankind (via institution) and seeing the absolute best from people not even being asked for anything yet, politicians saying how do we help and actually taking action. ‪#‎fuckcancer‬ ‪#‎laurenlives‬

((I put this (wording above) with this picture I saw on facebook yesterday - not sure who it belongs to but great work (not mine)))

Today was meant to be stem cell/bone marrow transplant!!

How quickly life changes. We've gone from a procedure to try and cure Lauren's leukaemia via a stem cell/bone marrow transplant which should have been happening today, to fighting money making institutions to have any chance of getting back to square 1 and save her life, where we can revisit a stem cell/bone marrow transplant.

Feeling inundated with all the suggestions - too many to follow. Sorry if I don't get back to everyone just yet - funny the reason I started the blog years ago was to cut down the phone calls for updates!!! Now it seems to be creating questions....I know, all for the right reasons from concerned people. Just please don't expect calls returned right now. Thanks, Michael

Trial drug access denied (company 1)

Today we finally heard official confirmation access to the Trial Drug (phase 3 in Australia) is not being allowed access to Lauren for treatment by the pharmaceutical company who own it. Not sure if this is real reason yet but because they don't want their trial statistic results jeopardised when they go for drug subsidy validation with the Aust Govt. I hope this is wrong. I would have thought accessing this way would be outside their trial and therefore wouldn't effect the trial results. Just goes to show how much these institutions really care (not) at the end of the day. Money first, people second (or do we come further down the pecking order?) Not prepared to name them yet in case they have a change of heart.

Towel hasn't been thrown in, but time is of the essence right now as Lauren's blast cell count will only grow with time and we can't supposedly administer more chemo.

RAH has requested access to another trail drug they're not part of the trial for from another pharmaceutical company - we're still waiting to hear their response via the RAH at this stage. Not prepared to name the companies at this stage - neither the one who's knocked back access and the other we're waiting to hear from (only a new request).

Thank you to all who have offered support in contacting MP's, companies direct, change.org, the press - once we know outcome of second drug company giving access to their drug will follow some of these up. An MP I met with today (I don't want to name him only because if this goes pear shaped, I don't want him seen in a negative light as he and his office have been excellent. One of the few genuine MP's who still acts for the people, his constituents, rather than getting as much as he can from the 'system'. They've helped, offered more help and genuinely interested in taking out roadblocks. More dialogue with him tomorrow.

Lauren... I wish I knew what to say to her right now, to take the hurt away, but only thing I can do is try and deliver the right trial drug with the right people's help. Once it's administered, it's up to her to deliver the remission so we can go to transplant. I wish we could stop time whilst this plays out!!! As many of you have already noticed from her Facebook posts, she's pissed off but not throwing towel in!! We've come too far to simply lay down and make it easy for some!!!

Great to see her many friends keeping her afloat right now.....not to mention family, Haven't mentioned the role being played in particular her Grandmother who's been living in Adelaide helping and spending supportive time in hospital with her. Family in Sydney, please keep in touch with Mum (I know you are, but she needs it too as does Kate and Nathan right now).

Lauren back in hospital due fever

Early hours Saturday morning, Lauren was admitted back into the RAH due a fever. Sort of a relief she's at least in there, as with the seriousness of the current situation, at least she's right under their nose and hopefully the hireichy will be reminded of the need for speed, to knock out the bureaucracy in play.

Still waiting to hear further news about the trial drug. Taking far too long in my opinion. Will update more later, when I can. Busy day today trying to remove roadblocks!!

Oh yeah, dominant answer from last blog question - 24 hours max!!!

Communication from the RAH - what should we expect in light of the last communication?

What's a fair time to have regular updates on what's happening with treatment and transplant for Lauren from the Royal Adelaide Hospital? 24 hours? 48 hours? 72 hours? more?? So far since Tuesday, there's been ZERO. For something this important and stressful, I would have thought regular communication would be standard practice - what's your thought?
FB or email me please your thoughts as I'm sure we'll all differ to the bureaucratic approach.
Michael

Update #8 by Lauren........(I admire her strength!!!)

UPDATE #1 - We're back to square 1. Unfortunately the transplant, that I was meant to be admitted for today, has been delayed due to the leukaemia coming back and there being too many leukaemia cells in my blood. The reason they won't do the transplant is because if there's too many leukaemia cells, the likelihood of the new stem cells that they give me won't be able to settle into my body as the leukaemia cells would band together and kill them off pretty quickly which is not the outcome we want. So basically what needs to happen is for them to get me into remission again and as I'm no longer allowed anymore chemo because I've had so much in my life span options are becoming harder to find.

Luckily there is this drug on a worldwide trial at the moment. This was the drug that when I first relapsed my doctor thought I would be able to receive but unfortunately due to the nature of being in a trial I did not get picked to receive it, however now that I have gone through the trial and given data on the standard treatment (chemo) and this being a unique circumstance I'm in, my doctors are pretty hopeful they will get this drug within the next week for me to receive. This drug is not a chemo drug and comes with very few side affects (I won't loose the fluff that I've grown on top of my head for instance). And the way it works is by targeting a certain protein that's in the leukaemia cell which to me has always sounded like the better option so in a way I'm relieved that things have ended up this way - I've always had a good gut instinct about this drug. However the odds of me going into remission are once again a 50/50 or possibly lower chance as its still on trial. But of course I'm believing that this drug will get me into remission and if it does then as soon as I am in remission I'll go straight into transplant as the cord blood has now arrived and is being stored in Adelaide.

And for those who want to know how I'm holding up - in a way in really relieved and excited to try this drug that I really wanted at the start but at the same time this setback has taken its toll on my positivity because if this doesn't end up working then I'll have to look for alternative treatments overseas so please pray, meditate, reflect, send your love or whatever you do that in this weird and crazy world has the ability to create miracles. Because fingers and everything else crossed that this drug will be the thing that works and that my transplant afterwards will just blow cancer out of my body forever. ‪#‎fuckleukaemia‬ ‪#‎fuckcancer‬

(see yesterday's post for some recent photos)

Transplant postponed

So, Lauren was due to be admitted into the RAH tomorrow (3/6/15) in preparation for transplant on June 10. However, it's been called off for now as her last blood reading had blast cells present and they're not prepared to go ahead with transplant with these blast cells present. From a bone marrow biopsy a couple of weeks ago, blasts cell reading was 3% and not present in the blood readings. Whereas it is now in the blood reading.
Plan (on the run at this stage) is to give Lauren the trial drug that she missed out on at start of this relapse (due the hat drawing system bureaucrats use), get her blasts cells down to zero and take her straight into transplant.

Means she's not going into hospital tomorrow and we wait for the trial drug to get here. With a long weekend here coming up, can't see any movement at the station until next week. Not what we wanted to hear, but WTF do you do? The cord blood is here and ready to go for transplant. Just need to get her blast cells down first (fingers crossed!!)

In the meantime, Lauren has been busy getting out with friends as she has an immune system currently.

From a surprise get together with her AC Arts colleagues on Saturday, to her Canteen mates on Sunday and her Camp Quality family last night for a surprise dinner - thanks to the organisation skills of a certain brilliant nurse!!! ES!!

So more news next week at this stage. Been through this before and must say, getting numb to the 'left field' changes with transplant.

Funny, we've gone from wanting her to maximise time out of hospital, now we want her in there.....for the right reasons!!!